Today the local "viral website" launched a missile at Mayor Sayles' husband, Tom. Based on rumors, speculation, lack of knowledge and misinterpretation of state laws, the ignorant villagers are declaring him to be a criminal who is working as a contractor without a license and hiring workers without having worker's compensation insurance. They point to the registered owner of record of Sayles Construction on the Contractors State License Board website and the fact that it's a sole ownership with no employees, exempt from having to buy workers comp insurance.
A small general contractor often has no employees, instead using skilled contract work, usually another small contractor who becomes the subcontractor. If the subcontractor has employees, then he is responsible for the workers compensation insurance on any job he sends them, not the general contractor. If the subcontractor does the work himself, then he's still responsible for his own insurance, not the general contractor. Not having employees and not having workers compensation insurance doesn't mean a contractor is doing anything illegal.
Chief gossip Laura Thimler claims to have some kind of personal knowledge about Sayles Construction and the Sayles' intimate family dynamics but that's unlikely. Maybe she trades gossip with a bitter ex-family member of the Sayles' and we know they wouldn't lie. We're just so sure that the mayor and her husband are crooks. They must be! Just listen to what everyone is saying!It's questionable how far gossip can go before it turns into malicious slander or libel. Today the vicious stories have crossed a line. The new accusations call into question not only Thomas Sayles' character but that of his brother, a small business owner. Since when is it okay to try to ruin someone's business and livelihood? Does freedom of speech regarding a public figure apply to members of the public figure's extended family?
For a fascinating short read on the social dynamics of gossip, see Gossiping to get ahead by Ryan Cureatz.
That must be the point you are missing. Libel is a false statement. If it is true no one has anything to worry about. Questioning information is again not libel. You call it gossip but do not mind posting about it to your 10 or so readers. I like in your other post how you claim that web page is nothing but rumors, despite the physical documents to back up his claims. Then, almost in the same sentence you claim Laura used to work for the City... Oh but do not hold you to that because you are not sure..
ReplyDeleteNice one! So who is spreading rumors now.
So I take it your are a Kristy backer. That is fine, but I believe that web page has proven a long history of lying to the people of this City. What do you have to say about the City web page saying she was born and raised in Lathrop. Obviously she was not?
Thanks for the comments, at least someone is reading.
ReplyDeleteTom is not even authorized to hire subcontractors, HE'S NOT A LICENSED CONTRACTOR. You must get from A to B before you start defending C.
ReplyDeleteIs life in Manteca lacking so much that you have to cover the Lathrop Mayoral race exclusively? Change your name to LathropLive so that your readers will truly know where your allegiance lies.
ReplyDeleteAs for your question about Libel, go to Law School and figure it out. Don't throw out opinionated innuendo and not back it up. Every allegation launched against Kristy has been backed up. Same with Tom. Wait for the posting on Tom's bankruptcy filings and how the Trustee threw his case out for non-payment of plan payments. Oh, let me guess, you'll defend that too.
Webmaster, you obviously *didn't* go to law school, as is clearly evidenced by your poor grammar and sentence construction along with your partial understanding and/or complete misinterpretation of the law.
ReplyDeletePhrasing your allegations as questions, rather than as blanket statements, can still be considered defamation and libel and you, sir, are skating on thin ice. Putting a question mark at the end of an otherwise libelous statement does not protect you from legal action.
I don't know what kind of person Kristy Sayles is, but what I do know is that Lathrop deserves her. What kind of city elects a high school drop out their mayor? In what universe is she qualified to run a city? The citizens of Lathrop elected her to office, with that information freely available to them. Everything that followed should have been expected, and it should have surprised no one if she turned out to be a terrible leader.
Your pathetic attempt at gum-shoe journalism and lame sleuth work is entirely unnecessary. Running Kristy and her family through the gutter and airing her dirty laundry is entirely despicable.
From everything that I've read, Sayles (despite being the incumbent) had little-to-no chance of winning in November. So why the attack? Even if you believe that she's a bad person and a bad mayor, if she wasn't going to win anyways, why spend the time and energy on spreading malicious gossip about her?
You say you don't live in Lathrop and that you're not even FROM Lathrop. Again: why are you doing this? What do you have to gain from it? ($$$?...)
You claim that someone at a Christian reading group told you about the issues and you decided to take it on as a pet project. Why won't you disclose who this person is? Saying that the person in question is afraid of retaliation is ridiculous. ...Or do you now have "proof" of Kristy's ties to the mafia? Is the person in question afraid of a hit?
It's pretty obvious that you're either friends with or working for one of her opponents-- there's no other reason to hide the person's identity. (And check out the blog roll-- is it just a coincidence which blog comes first?...)
While we're talking about your "Christian" reading group... How have your actions (and the actions of your commenters) been CHRISTIAN? "Judge not lest ye be judged" ring a bell?
I can guarantee that if any one of us had a website solely devoted to finding and making public all of our faults, the results would be devastating. Why don't you go first, Webmaster? Lead by example! If what you're doing to Kristy isn't so bad, then why don't you post all of the public information available about you?
I can also guarantee that there are other candidates on that roster who, if put under the same microscope you have Kristy under, would make her seem saintly in comparison.
In summary: Wow! You know how FOIA works! You can make a website using a template! Oooooh! Impressive! While the uneducated masses of the Central Valley might be impressed with your "skills," believe me-- you're not special. The citizens of Lathrop, and the surrounding communities, need a hard, cold dose of reality. And a lesson in media literacy.
And to the authors of Manteca Live!: I hope you've got IP tracking turned on so that you can verify where comments are coming from and if any of those Lathrop mayoral candidates are commenting on this blog...
REFERENCE:
45. Libel is a false and unprivileged publication by writing, printing, picture, effigy, or other fixed representation to the eye, which exposes any person to hatred, contempt, ridicule, or obloquy, or which causes him to be shunned or avoided, or which has a tendency to injure him in his occupation.
45a. A libel which is defamatory of the plaintiff without the necessity of explanatory matter, such as an inducement, innuendo or other extrinsic fact, is said to be a libel on its face.
Defamatory language not libelous on its face is not actionable unless the plaintiff alleges and proves that he has suffered special damage as a proximate result thereof. Special damage is defined in Section 48a of this code.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=2199567863+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve
Thank you "John Doe" for shedding some light on the legal definitions of libel.
ReplyDeleteJackie- My pleasure!
ReplyDeleteThe "Webmaster" behind KristySayles.com obviously has an incentive to be operating this smear campaign, especially one of this scale-- no normal individual would dedicate so much time, energy, and money into a project like that without getting *something* from it in return.
It would be nice if the "Webmaster" would hold himself to the same level of honesty and disclosure that he is demanding of Mayor Sayles. C'mon, Webmaster! Who are you working for?! ...Like I stated earlier, I don't think it's a coincidence which blog shows up first on KristySayles.com and which candidate has been an active commenter on the site...
And, Jackie, perhaps you could provide your contact information somewhere on this site?... It would be nice to have the opportunity to transmit information to you without having to post it in the comments of this blog.
Thanks!
Hi John Doe! You can contact me at jackie@mantecalive.com Thank you again for your comments.
ReplyDeleteHello Manteca! Chief gossip Laura Thimler here. I never bothered to check this site out until I heard my name was mentioned, but after reading a bit, I feel a need to respond.
ReplyDeleteWere this story something someone was telling me about I would think they were either watching too many soap operas or perhaps something on A&E. Unfortunately, it is all true. I have documentation to back up my "gossip" and actually wish I didn't.It would be lovely to wake up one day and realize the Kristy days were just a bad dream, but this is reality and I am wide awake. My hope is to wake everyone up in Lathrop before they have to suffer through another two years of destruction.
I have a very busy life and no
need nor desire to spend what little spare time I have worrying about what other people are doing with theirs. Unfortunately, not enough people have been paying attention and Lathrop is slipping out from under them.
What do you consider gossip? If I say Kristy lied her way into office by saying she was a lifelong resident of Lathrop and her Uncle endorsed her campaign would that be gossip? I can prove both are lies. If I said she lied to the citizen's of Lathrop, members of the MUSD and a newspaper reporter when she said the city had more than enough sewer to bring Lathrop High School on line, would that be gossip? I can prove she lied about this -repeatedly. What about 40 bad checks and being booked in Alpine County? Running a daycare for at least 4 years without ever having even submitted paperwork for a fictitious business name? Taking a trip to Washington on the city's dime only to report back that "There's an awful lot of alcohol in Washington!" How about if I point out the fact that 'John Doe' is not only off track about Tom Sayles and the non-existent contractors license, but he absolutely skirts the true point AND calls us the "uneducated masses of the Central Valley"! Vincent Sayles is listed as the sole proprieter of Sayles Construction, but Tom Sayles claims it as his and files bankruptcy papers using the name along with his home address, yet he DOES NOT HAVE either a contractor's license, nor a business license in the City of Lathrop! Kristy has continuously used a name that was never hers - especially when committing crimes. Would all of this be gossip? I can prove it all. Just for the heck of it let's throw in the fact that there is but a skeleton crew of knowledgeable people left working at City Hall due to the way it is being run by the City Manager, who Kristy refuses to get rid of, although Staff,the SEIU, developers and Citizen's have all complained about the treatment they receive from her. In fact, since Kristy has been the Mayor with her choice of City Manager running the show, hundred's of years of experience have left and been replaced with a number of department heads with no experience for the high paying positions they hold. More gossip? I can back it all up. Another time though. I'm exhausted from being the Chief!
All joking aside, if you live and vote in Lathrop, please do so responsibly. I have absolutely not one thing to gain by the work I have put into uncovering the truth about Lathrop's current leader and others, except knowing it is the right thing to do. Too many people have been hurt, too many lives ruined and the charade has got to stop!
Ms. Thimler! Thank you for your comments. You've certainly given me a lot to think about.
ReplyDeleteJackie, Thank you for allowing me to respond.
ReplyDeleteLaura
Mr Doe, how mighty of you to stand up anon and cry foul. Why don't you quit hiding and let everyone know who you are? The point is a long history of lying all the way from 20 years ago up to today shows a pattern we will no longer accept. A person running for mayor should know this could be exposed and should drop out if she respected the position at all. She has turned Lathrop into the joke and now no one is laughing. Her character is relevant to her duties as mayor,as she represents the City...
ReplyDeleteHow else is anyone going to hear the complete truth about her. You think she was going to come out and say it?
And to the new story saying she was not trying to hide the fact she has a conviction. Is that why she stated to the pres she has commited no crime. Just another lie.
Dear Ms. Thimler,
ReplyDeleteIt would be nice to share your relationship with Mayor Sayles. Aren't you the person that worked for the City of Lathrop and owed your job to the efforts of former city Councilman Augie Beltran who persuaded former City Manager Pam Carder to hire you. In order for you to get medical insurance. Steve McKee now picks up the tab for said insurance due to the fact that you live with him. Are you the person that has called the Mayor and "threatened to destroy her if she ran for re-election" when Steve McKee was sitting next to you. This he admitted to witnesses when confronted on the behavior. Oh, for all of you who did not know. Steve McKee is Mayor Sayles uncle. Laura Thimler formerly Mrs. Tim Thimler purports to be Steve McKee's common law wife according to Steve and Laura. This isn't rumor, it came out of their mouths.
What did Mayor Sayles refuse to do that brought down the wrath of the McKee and Thimler household? During the Christmas of 2007, they said,"if you don't get rid of the City Manager (Yvone Quiring) we will do whatever is necessary". Not to mention the fact that Mr. McKee can't stand the idea of Mayor Sayles not taking his advice and doing his bidding.
One should ask this self-righteous Laura Thimler why she abandoned her children and went to live in the foothills with Mr. Moneybags. Of course, the deal was to pay off the home mortgage at the Lathrop Thimler residence and then scoot out of town.
The relationship between Robert Oliver, the developers, Kathy Luckey (developer), Steve McKee,Laura Thimler, and the ubiquitous J.D. Maurer and Assoc.aka.Jeremy Maurer,(private investigator), and the altruistic motives of the tooth fairy can easily be deduced. Who has the money to support such a campaign? The very people who made the threats. Steve McKee, Laura Thimler, and Kathy Luckey.
Dear Ms. Thimler or common law wife of one year.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you explain your multi-year affair with Mr. McKee while you were married to Tim Thimler? If you are going to cast stones at the mistakes of a person when she was sixteen or twenty one, why not discuss your mistakes when you were 40 or 50 something. In other words this year, last year, the year before. I can make a case for a sixteen year old or twenty something doing something dumb, how about you? The fact of the matter is just what Dennis Wyatt said:(paraphrased), it is a witchhunt to obscure the isses in Lathrop by developers, Steve Mckee and indiviuals who are losing their hold on the city purse strings.
I am curious as to why you are so concerning about Lathrop, you are not a resident of Lathrop and neither is Steve McKee? You live up in the foothills, you left your children and your husband what do you care. Did not Steve Mckee have more money than your husband?
It's great to see that Tom has a venue here to voice his displeasure with the site. Great job Tom. Everyone should look up defamation and what the elements are to prove it, better yet the jury instructions and oh what's that, how it applies to Political Figures. Until she's out of office she is a Political Figure.
ReplyDeleteA few things: The reason for my anonymity is out of a legitimate fear for my safety and the safety of my wife and children.
ReplyDeleteWhile all of "Webmaster's" lemmings are busy dragging Kristy Sayles through the mud, they're missing the REAL story, a story that I know far too well, a story that I know first hand, a story that forces me to hide behind a veil of secrecy instead of coming out in the open to express my dissent.
The lemmings over at KristySayles.com can't see the forest for the trees, ultimately to their own detriment. Lathrop elected an uneducated, unqualified person to the mayor's office and are suffering the consequences-- but what are they going to put in her place? I strongly suggest that the citizens of Lathrop adjust their focus to the CURRENT mayoral candidates, rather than focus on the past, before they end up in a far worse position than they are in right now.
Finally, I wanted to point out that I am the ORIGINAL John Doe, and that the "john doe" posting about Tom is NOT me. "john doe," please use a different handle when posting on this site to prevent sock puppetry, confusion, and misinformation. Thank you.
Thank you.
Dear John Doe,
ReplyDeleteThe fear you have may be from the same people who are targeting the Mayor and her family. I don't know anyone who would be willing to submit themselves to that type of public abuse over a volunteer job. It is sad that in this day, volunteers are abused, libeled, slandered,sued, and the means at which they make a living are assaulted all in the name of political power and the pursuit of a few dollars. There is an old saying,"a lie will go around the world before the truth gets out of bed."
Laura Thimler you are a bald faced liar and while it may take some time for the truth to get out, be patient, it will get there.
The idea that Mayor Sayles is a political figure is undeniable and subject to the normal political attacks. Are you going to tell me that what is happening is normal in the face of the quotes related to Thimler, McKee, Luckey and their associates?
The webmaster, Laura Thimler and their ilk want to return to the days of developer control of city hall, of councilmen doing clerks and paying a total cost of $1.2 million for the privelege.
To the one or more anonymous, to the Original John Doe and to the current John Doe and all happy go lucky readers.
ReplyDeleteI would like to say something here and I hope you save this message.
There will be a time after the elections have passed.
If after the elections and I am Mayor, please consider coming to me and providing to me, a formula that you feel shall enable Lathrop and Manteca to prosper. Sure, I have my ideas and my experiences but if you all can write so much now, please do so once I am in Office.
If you read the management book: Lincoln on Leadership, you would understand that Management By Walking Around (MBWA) is critical.
However, the MBWA is only as good as the manager’s ability to “Draw Information From the Public” and to feel the Heart Beat of the City through doing so.
If you bring to me a problem, bring to me YOUR version as to how to resolve the problem. If you are a Manteca resident and dislike the traffic from/to Lathrop on your street, talk to me. If you are a Lathrop resident and conversely, some item from Manteca is a bother to the quality of your life, come to me.
You (writers) have a great deal of knowledge as to people in both communities (Lathrop and Manteca) and on the past and present city council members. I read a name I had not heard in years: Tom Lucky. I met him and his wife many years ago and I liked them. To me it is ok to be friends with developers. They do help cities. I will never go to a vacation spot they paid for and I may never do many things with a developer including, accept their money but don’t be so fast to bash them. In my views it has not been the developers who caused all of the problems, rather, inexperienced city council members who have taken the developers money then given the developer everything and anything they request. City business and city contracts must be open for the public to view and we need a mechanism that triggers our city councils to follow when there is a negative public outcry on a purposed measure or project. I can not say this enough, Government Officials are Public Servants. There is a cornucopia (horn of the goat Amaltheia) that allows us all to endlessly have reason why we would never enter politics.
Because I have tossed my hat in the ring, I now face a great deal of work. If you wish to spend time talking bad about me, taking pictures of me or doing this or that in a negative light and in an anonymous forum, that’s fine. This web site brings out data. I don’t need to hear your ideas now. Let’s wait until after the election and then, build back what was broken and C.O.M.M.U.N.I.C.A.T.E. That to me is the first recipe for our community’s successes. Speaking of recipes. Remember to visit my web page www.RockLathrop.com and try the recipe I have there for free. Also go to my Links page and watch some good ole fashioned movies….. Yes, whatever happened to Randolph Scott has happened to the Industry…. Sounds like today doesn’t it.
Respectfully
John Rock
"It's pretty obvious that you're either friends with or working for one of her opponents-- there's no other reason to hide the person's identity. (And check out the blog roll-- is it just a coincidence which blog comes first?...)"
ReplyDeleteIT'S ALPHABETICAL.
"Why don't you go first, Webmaster? Lead by example! If what you're doing to Kristy isn't so bad, then why don't you post all of the public information available about you?"
I'M NOT RUNNING FOR OFFICE AND YOU'RE NOT RELYING ON KRISTY TO PUBLISH HER OWN DIRT, WHY WOULD I PUBLISH MINE?
"You say you don't live in Lathrop and that you're not even FROM Lathrop. Again: why are you doing this? What do you have to gain from it? ($$$?...)"
I WAS BORN IN LATHROP AS MUCH AS KRISTY WAS... I'M HOPING TO GAIN MONEY WHEN THIS IS OVER. IT'S A FIRST DITCH ATTEMPT TO BREAK INTO OPPOSITION RESEARCH. CAN'T YOU READ?
"In summary: Wow! You know how FOIA works! You can make a website using a template! Oooooh! Impressive!"
FOIA is for Federal and CPRA is California you Donkey. I'm the one who disclosed it was a template when you and others thought it was some slick $3,000 to $4,000 website. I never said it was great, it's the content that's great. BTW - Thanks for the compliments, I know you're impressed, would you like to be next?